Agile Insights and Decisions in a World of Probabilities

In this episode of the Consumer Insights Podcast, we speak with Anup Pradhan, VP - Head, User Research, Insights, and Behavior Science at Swiggy.

How do you balance agility and precision when making insights-led decisions? And how can you walk that line while learning to do more with less?

There are no easy answers. But living in today’s world of probabilities, it’s essential for insights leaders to stay close to their consumers, their stakeholders, and most importantly, to not be afraid of taking calculated risks.

In this episode of the Consumer Insights Podcast, Thor is joined by Anup Pradhan, VP - Head, User Research, Insights, and Behavior Science at Swiggy.

They cover:

• The distinction between an observation and an insight

• The importance of embracing multiple data sources

• Two fundamental ways that insights contribute to business results

• How to balance agility and precision in a world of probabilities

• Why risk-taking is increasingly essential for insights leaders

• Real-world cases from Anup’s time at Swiggy and Uber 

• The benefits of a centralized insights function

• Why the right agency partners are essential 

• Why applying previous experiences in a new context can hold you back

• Anup’s perspective on the DNA of a successful insights team

• Why annual planning might not always be the right approach

• How to build trust with senior stakeholders

• How insights leaders can prepare for having to do more with less 

If you’re interested in digging into how to embrace agile, insights-led decision making even when resources are limited, tune in to this episode of The Consumer Insights Podcast.

You can access all episodes of the Consumer Insights Podcast on Apple, Spotify, Google, or use the RSS feed with your favorite player. Below, you'll find a lightly edited transcript of this episode.

Thor Olof Philogène: Hello everyone, and welcome to the Consumer Insights podcast. Today I'm excited to have an impressive Insights leader joining me for what I know will be a fantastic conversation.

I'm thrilled to introduce today's guest, Anup Pradhan, VP and Head of Research and Insights at Swiggy, a leading on demand delivery platform in India. Anup has over 15 years of experience in the industry heading up insights for companies like Uber, General Mills, as well as spending time on the agency side with Nielsen. Anup, thank you so much for joining me today.

Anup Pradhan: It's just an absolute pleasure. Thanks for having me, Thor. And first and foremost just amazing that you're doing this podcast for the insights community. It's just the first of its kind. So thrilled to be here.

Thor: Very happy to have you on. Before we dive in, could you take a couple of minutes to tell us about yourself, your journey and how you came to work in the role you're in today? How did it all begin?

Anup: Sure. Where do I start? It's been about 16 years now that I've spent time on the insights function here. I currently lead the research and insights function at Swiggy. Swiggy, like you said, is a pioneer in online food delivery, kind of now synonymous with offering convenience in India, with quick commerce and dining out as well. 

And I'm extremely fortunate to work in this company and drive the Research and Insights mandate. Most importantly because it's one of those companies that is so consumer first. 

We have leaders in the company that really value the voice of the customer and just kind of gives a lot of opportunities to make business impact prior to this kind of where it all began. 

I started my journey like you said, with Nielsen. I started working with a small division of Nielsen called bases. A lot of what I am doing today has shaped with my time at bases. It was just a fabulous time at bases where there were leaders, the work ethic, the way we kind of really handled our clients. 

It just shaped a lot of that thinking and got the early perspective of how business really uses insights and then kind of did different roles that needs before moving on to a Consumer Insights lead role for APAC in General Mills. 

This is an FMCG giant, really a different role and actually saw how Insights was getting used as a practitioner per se. I met a stellar Insights professional over there who is my manager called Evan Williams, who by the way, should be one of the guests on the show. 

He’s a phenomenal guy, told me how purely Insights are looked differently within the FMCG setup. So while I came with my own understanding, he had a very different take around how tech can play a role in consumer goods, how we should be looking at some of the other ways of the retail audit data. 

And that has got me sparked into this interesting dimension around doing newer things within the realm of the consumer goods industry. I then moved on to Uber, where I had the opportunity to kind of set up the Insights function for Uber, India. 

That was again an amazing opportunity spent there two and a half years before coming in here at Swiggy with a similar responsibility, but kind of now looking at a centralized function which is very different from some of the other setups on how Insights really works. I've been here for about three odd years and every year we've done something new, added more and more value, I believe, with the work that we do.

Anup's definition of an insight

Thor: Such a fascinating journey Anup and I think it's particularly interesting when people like yourself have been on the agency side and then come to the brand side. And you've also worked at an FMCG, one of the biggest, but you've also worked at really strong and powerful technology companies. So I always ask this question, but I think it's particularly interesting with your background as an Insights leader, how do you define an Insight?

Anup: I think it's the most granular belief that we can kind of really understand from the users that shapes the user's behavior. It's a trigger that will influence the user to do something.  And the absolute most granular belief that we can unearth and nail it down and map it to that specific level is like the insight. 

And I would kind of say that kind of has been my there are other more common pronounced definitions, whereas about it, in retrospection it looks obvious, that's one of my favorite ones. But to me it's the most granular belief that we try to discover through different methods. And once you get that, that kind of explains everything else that the user is doing.

Thor: And you mentioned people in your journey, you mentioned Evan Williams, a mentor from your time at General Mills. And you've also evolved in very different environments, very different companies. In what way, if at all, has the way you define an Insight changed during the course of your career? And if it did change, what is it that caused the change?

Anup: I think over the years, the way I've always looked at the Insight has evolved. When you're starting off, you kind of really don't distinguish between an observation and an insight. 

While the definition is about finding that granular beliefs, the ability to get that or the different sources that you have whether it is your quantitative lens, whether it is the data analytics or a small anecdote all are super powerful. My willingness to embrace each one of them as I do some dispassionate truth seeking has kind of changed over the years.

As you move forward and have more experience, you kind of understand that difference, which is fundamental to how you go beyond consumers peak, how you kind of really evolve.

I wouldn't say my definition around Insights has changed. What I would say is that as I've progressed, I had the opportunity to work with different companies that are consumer goods or tech. 

What I've realized is there are multiple data sources that are available for treating and I think we need to embrace them. 

So while the definition is about finding that granular beliefs, the ability to get that or the different sources that you have whether it is your quantitative lens, whether it is the data analytics or a small anecdote all are super powerful. My willingness to embrace each one of them as I do some dispassionate truth seeking has kind of changed over the years.

Why market and consumer insights are so important

Thor: I just love the way you talk about truth seeking, and since we're talking about this: from your perspective why are market and consumer insights so important? What does accessing, what does analyzing, what does integrating all them, that truth that you're talking about what is it that allows businesses to do? 

Anup: Right. I'd say that there are two fundamental reasons or areas that insights offers which is very unique and is an expertise that insights professionals around the globe offer to the stakeholders that they work with. 

The first one resides more in what I call as “exploration” or in a more inciting term “where you want to know why this is happening”. So there are maybe avenues for us to kind of really get into the work from the data. 

But why does the user behave the way he or she does? Why does the user actually do this? What are the beliefs that actually define them and define their behavior? Some of this is only possible when you actually spend time with the user or you actually get to know the user better. 

And now we have different tools and techniques that are available to get us closer to the user, but somebody has to represent that voice of the customer in an unbiased way back to the org and decode that “why”. That I think is truly differentiated, as well as expert advice that you can kind of offer to your orgs. 

Now we have different tools and techniques that are available to get us closer to the user, but somebody has to represent that voice of the customer in an unbiased way back to the org and decode that “why”. That I think is truly differentiated, as well as expert advice that you can kind of offer to your orgs. 

The second thing which I think is very different from most of the other divisions or other business lines is measuring some of the performances that you have. Again, you have this objective function that can actually help and show the middle back to the org and help make better decisions for the future. 

And hence again, in the absence of a consumer insights or a market research or a user insights function measurement of what you have done becomes a challenge. And here you will have one specific division or a department that will go after and chase it in the most robust way. 

And I think there's a lot of value that can help in terms of building that operating excellence in the campaigns or in the feature launches or even how we really aspire to serve our customers better. 

So those are, I think, definitive things that potentially nobody else in the org is doing as well as this division and I think that's where even if you look back in time we've seen insights professionals really talk as measurement champions or doing a lot of qualitative work. I just kind of see everything together as representing the voice of the customer back to the business.

Balancing risk taking, agility, and precision

Thor: And I love the fact that you say “doing it as well as'', which really highlights the fact that it's quite tricky, it's quite complex and if we build on that what is your take on the balancing of risk taking, agility, precision? How do you balance the tradeoffs between them?

Anup: That's a great question. It's a question that we often discuss within the team as well. Yeah, look, I mean there are no easy answers but in my experience, increasing agility has become more and more important. It's something that if you have to make an impact, you have to really partner with your business and product stakeholders. It's imperative that you equip them with the right knowledge for them to make that decision. 

I mean, you owe it to the org and them to be there and provide that input to them at the right time. And often in a dynamic company like ours, or a dynamic world for that matter, agility is going to be critical and I've seen it only grow in importance in the near future. 

Increasing agility has become more and more important. It's something that if you have to make an impact, you have to really partner with your business and product stakeholders. It's imperative that you equip them with the right knowledge for them to make that decision. 

I would say risk taking has two parts to it. Risk taking is about adopting new processes, newer methodologies, being open to that. But why would you want to do that? It's either an agility need, or it is something that you think will unearth the equation a little better. I do think that risk taking is important. 

The second facet to risk taking is taking a stand - and I see this to be an area that the insights community can improve as a whole. We are very sure about our data, we want to say the right thing, but it's absolutely okay to be human about it and just kind of take that risk and take your stakeholder along with you saying “Knowing what we are, this is the best that we can do potentially about this.” 

Precision is important, however it's not the most important thing in my view. We have a conversation around, “Look, how much precision would you want us to do? But if it's going to come one quarter delayed, are you going to hold back folks that long for this?” And if it is super critical, maybe you will, but maybe seven out of ten times you don't. 

And I think that is a sense of partnership as well. So I think risk taking is important and precision has been like the guarded one that we've been holding since the longest time. If you think about researchers, you think about precision. But I don't think we live in that world anymore. 

I think we live in the world of probabilities. Precision is important, however it's not the most important thing in my view. We have a conversation around, “Look, how much precision would you want us to do? But if it's going to come one quarter delayed, are you going to hold back folks that long for this?” And if it is super critical, maybe you will, but maybe seven out of ten times you don't. 

And I genuinely believe we always have some guardrails with opposition any which way it's okay to err on the side of agility, on the side of bias for action, rather than being extremely pristine about it.

Fueling innovation through insights

Thor: I just love what you just said. Be human, take that risk. Such good advice. And I think that sometimes, as in slice leaders, we get caught up in wanting to have all our bases covered when we go into those meetings and when we present whatever we think is essential for the company. 

I know a lot of our listeners, having seen and heard about your background at these amazing companies, are dying to learn more about actual cases, actual examples. So maybe you could share some examples from your career when you've actually integrated insights that have led to better projects, a better product, a better campaign and you really walk us through that whole path, the journey. 

What was the insight that created the opportunity? How did you identify it? Which team found it? Which team used it? What was the end result?

Anup: Got it. This is a tricky one. Let me think about what I'm going to say.

Thor: The audience wants to know.

Anup: Right. So I think the pandemic was one example where we kind of saw a lot of different consumer behaviors that we didn't expect users to do and it came out all in the open and we had to respond. 

We had to kind of partner our business teams and our product teams on being very close to the consumers and we were really very close in terms of doing a lot of consumer connect with our consumers, with our delivery partners and what they are feeling because this was the first time that they were experiencing something. 

All of us were, for that matter, how we responded to some of the choices about brands that people chose at that point in time that were very different or very unique to that specific time. There were lockdowns, there was a lot of anxiety, there was fear for safety. 

Themes which otherwise were not at the forefront of brand choice came up at that point in time.  And what we realized was that you have to be very close to the consumers. We used to speak to an X amount of consumers every week and delivery partners every week. 

The team kind of really got together, rolled up their sleeves and said, “You know what? We will be very close to our users at this point”. And we heard them on what they were saying, and we heard different types of people, right?  

There was one group who was extremely dependent on us, while others were abstaining. And based on all that, we went back to the drawing board, and we came up with the idea — we figured out that the core insight was that people who were comfortable in adopting or warming up to our services were also doing that because their friends and family were doing it.

We used to meet people who were engaging in depending on brand or service for food, for grocery, how they said that “This was my only way to source groceries”. 

Like essentials. There were people who were selling us, users who were telling us, “This is the way I can actually go ahead and indulge a bit.” While there were folks who were saying, “Look, I’m not going to do this because I’m afraid. I’m worried about safety. I’m worried about which restaurants I should order from,” and different dimensions throughout the whole chain.

So there was one group who was extremely dependent on us, while others were abstaining. And based on all that, we went back to the drawing board, and we came up with the idea — we figured out that the core insight was that people who were comfortable in adopting or warming up to our services were also doing that because their friends and family were doing it.

And we unlocked social proof as the behavior that we saw. And we went back and said, “There’s a lot of social proofing that’s necessary at this point in time, and a lot of markers that users are concerned about.”

And the way our app morphed– because like I said, you know, Swiggy is this so consumer-centric company– the product team, the engineering team, the marketing team, and the business team all got together and said, “If this is what we need to solve and correct, how do we really go for it?”

I wouldn't have it right now to show you, but the way our app appeared was very different versus what it was yesterday. We had social markers, we had ratings to help the users, we had actual images of the restaurants put in, we had how many orders they were making all based on social parameters. 

Similarly, delivery partners told us that they were really scared about doing shopping and we kind of went ahead and actually talked on how to kind of really change some of our assignment logic to ensure there is no crowding at the restaurant all based on insights or conversations with your users. 

When I think about it, it's all impact that you can see based on conversations that folks are having. We finally did an ATL campaign, that's how the marketing campaign got formed where we kind of leveraged social proof as an angle and we saw a lot of adoption after that as well. 

These are some of the elements that if you take it back to a consumer insights conversation, what did we do? We just stayed close to our consumers and we spoke to them all the time. And then there were experiments run. There were validations run. 

And a genuinely open team, cross-functionally, who are willing to take chances and risk taking based on what we were discovering from some emotions that were happening.

These are some of the elements that if you take it back to a consumer insights conversation, what did we do? We just stayed close to our consumers and we spoke to them all the time. And then there were experiments run. There were validations run. 

And a genuinely open team, cross-functionally- who are willing to take chances and risk taking based on what we were discovering from some emotions that were happening. And that's how I think the ballpark rolls. 

I thought I'll give you an example from Uber as well. At that point in time we were thinking about “How do we define the codes of premium ride in the right shape world?” and the internal hypothesis was that benchmarking itself to “How airlines industry works, how inflight entertainment works and you know, should we be offering some of those codes as we think about it?” Which meant investments in that scale.

But when we spoke to consumers we figured that the mobile phone is equivalent in their ride. They were really seeking for a better car experience, a better driver rating experience and a driver partner should be somebody who they can connect with or trust. And their behavior was very fundamental yet considered to be hassle free, friction free at that point in time. 

And I think when we went back and we shared that with the leadership they kind of looked at that particular dimension and we kind of crafted our offering to that market which is all anchored in the consumer insights or the user connects that happened.

It helped us kind of really save a lot of dollars for the company at the same point of time to serve our consumers with what they really need more than anything.

About Swiggy

Thor: That's fascinating. And I just want to go back to your example with Swiggy also, because I think a lot of us, when we think about the pandemic, we associate that with a time that was super beneficial for companies like Swiggy, but that you were still able to identify these things that really were a blocker for you during those times. 

So super insightful. Just for the audience, could you give us some context on Swiggy? I mean it's a massive organization, right?

Anup: Right. Swiggy is a pioneer in online food delivery. It was one of the first companies that came here for about eight years now in India. We've kind of moved away and moved on now to offer convenience across different terrains. The mission for the company is offering unparalleled convenience to urban consumers and the way to kind of bring it to life is now offering quickcommerce. 

We are offering Dine Out as a service where people could actually search and visit restaurants in person. And then there are a bunch of other services that we also have on the horizon when it comes to meat delivery that we are doing. We also have a model that kind of does overnight delivery where we kind of actually just place an order and next morning at 07:00 am, it will be at your doorstep. 

So we kind of really looked at inconveniences in the lives of our consumers and now kind of really helping them in whatever way we can to kind of offer that unparalleled convenience.

It's a Pan-Indian organization. We are present in many, many cities, right from the metros to the non metros. It's a large setup and like I said, we've started the journey with food delivery, but there's so much more that is there to kind of offer and we are kind of scaling up our grocery business now. 

Like I said, we've started with our large pilot in the Din Out business, which also is getting a lot of traction. So from a convenience perspective, it's like one of the “go to apps” for a lot of our Indian consumers.

Scaling an insights team

Thor: Fascinating. And let's talk a bit more about Swiggy because I know you've put together a centralized insights function there, bringing together CX, UX and market research and now you're looking for behavioral science experts to help serve customers needs even better. 

Can you tell us a bit more about that decision to centralize and how have you decided which areas to prioritize when scaling the team?

Anup: Right, I think we are one of the first companies to do this, but I do believe that in the days to come, there will be many more companies that will actually centralize the insights function. The first and the most important reason would be that it just drives accountability. It just has one single threaded leader who is accountable and responsible for delivering insights and representing the voice of the customer. 

In the past, I've often seen and I speak to some of the folks in the industry, you will have this undercurrent whether this is a research responsibility, this is a UXR responsibility. The lines are blurred. While you should be actually working towards the shared goals from the company, you're kind of wondering who is going to do what and then there are redundancies.

It just makes life so much easier when you have this consolidated view, where you kind of now are responsible for your senior leadership's goals, and you are responsible for driving the business and product decisions forward. 

I mean, the same thing is going to be the UXR is going to work on it, the market research team is going to work on it, they are going to find the same thing from the same consumer. 

It just makes life so much easier when you have this consolidated view, where you kind of now are responsible for your senior leadership's goals, and you are responsible for driving the business and product decisions forward. 

And all of these are avenues for you to kind of deploy. So I'm least concerned about whether I do five UXR projects or three CX projects. It doesn't matter. Maybe it's a mixed amalgamation of a bit of a UX and a bit of a survey that serves the answer. 

As long as we are helping our stakeholders make the right decisions in time, I think we're doing the right job. And I think, like I said, we had some really consumer-centric leaders here, the product org as well as the business org.  

As long as we are helping our stakeholders make the right decisions in time, I think we're doing the right job. And I think, like I said, we had some really consumer-centric leaders here, the product org as well as the business org.  

When you kind of really were discussing this, they were extremely supportive of the idea and when we tested it out, the results were there.  They could actually catch hold of one division, say like, “Listen, I need this from you guys”. And we had to kind of go back and figure out what is the right way to do it and then find a mixed method to go back and deliver the insight. 

Once you do it, you just can't unsee it right? I mean it's just the right way to kind of really do this. I believe more and more companies will do it from accountability standpoint, from reduction of base standpoint and just better agility and decision making standpoint. 

I think that's how we've looked at it so far. And so far it's been excellent and now we want to kind of really take forward the next step. When you mention behavioral science, it's one of the areas that we believe will help us uncover or unlock some of the true potentials that we have and I think that's where the journey will be. 

And to answer your question on what's on mind about that, I think at this point of time it's about finding the right leader to join my team and then you can jam more on this. And I'm super excited we made some progress on that dimension. So yeah, I'm looking forward to this. The next time I speak, I think I'll have more to talk about that as well.

Essential tools for insights teams

Thor: I think it's very insightful and I think that you're describing a future that I think I can align with and I definitely agree that that's where the puck is going at the moment. So I think that's a very powerful observation. 

So now you are running this team and you have people that really have different skill sets working together. And when you look at this team and you look at the pace at which things need to happen, what tools do you believe are essential to support you and your team and why?

Anup: I have a slightly different take on this. When you speak about tools, I think one of the toolkits in end user research arsenal is your agency partners. However awesome teams that we are, we need great research agency partners to partner us. It's impossible for us to achieve the scale or actually kind of make a strong impact without strong agency partners. 

If you think about them as somebody who are thinkers along with us and I think that's one skill set that I kind of urge the other insights professionals, “Find your agency partners that you can trust and you can work with that will help you conquer much much more internally and have a larger canvas to play with as well.”

The DNA of a successful insights team

Thor: Understood. And when you think about setting up your team, because you did mention that you are growing it and you also mentioned the importance of getting the right people on the bus, what do you believe is the DNA of a successful insights team.

Anup: I think one that is extremely curious, one that's kind of really integrated with the business team and not shy to keep the functional hat away when they are in conversations is a tenet of a very, very successful team.  Somebody who's willing to kind of roll up their sleeves, work really on the ground and be closer to the consumer, like I said.

If we ourselves have done something in the past, it doesn't mean we'll do the same thing again. And whatever all of us have done in our previous lives, in previous companies does not hold true. 

Somebody who's also very agile and also innovative in their approach and does not really carry the baggage. One of the things that we often talk about in our team is like there is no baggage. If we ourselves have done something in the past, it doesn't mean we'll do the same thing again. And whatever all of us have done in our previous lives, in previous companies does not hold true. 

So if I worked in a company where there was a five stage, stage gate process for innovation, maybe some of the other companies are not best suited for that. It will just slow us down. 

So you need to kind of really be cognizant and aware of the pulse while you're trying to figure out your consumers. It's also extremely important to have the pulse of the organic and what you wish to accomplish and how best you can do that. 

So I think somebody who is curious, somebody who is willing to be a giant and somebody who is not shy to just keep that functional hat away. We need people to be more integrated in business and products, like it's their own thing. I mean, that's when you are actually helping them and what it does, it creates a culture of trust and it's super important to have that to make an impact.

How to elevate insights within the organization

Thor: I think you're mentioning so many good things here, Anup. Thank you so much for sharing that. I think it makes a lot of sense. And we've now talked about how to build a strong and powerful team. You've also told us how those teams are going to evolve, which I think is great. 

But let's talk a bit about the skills that you need for your team to be able to elevate insights within the organization. So this is outside of your team. How important is that? And what advice would you give to Insights professionals looking to do just that in their organizations? Get a seat at the table. How do you do that?

Anup: I think once it starts small, we often kind of paint really big pictures. “One year horizon, this is what my annual plan looks like.” And I think in today's day and time it's okay to have quarterly plans and kind of run after those and then kind of hit those and move forward. It's also important that more people kind of trust what you have to offer. So starting small actually helps you. 

The other thing that I'd say is that show and not tell – actually show the impact that's possible. Actually show the value of the work that's happened. Earn your trust from your senior stakeholders. Those would be the folks who are actually going to be your advocates when necessary, and have partnerships with senior stakeholders in terms of what they're doing. 

Today it's possible to actually do a lot of this without a lot of budget requirement. If you're one of those small startups that does not have the right amount of budget, it's absolutely fine. I mean, there are still so many avenues for us to add value.

And today it's possible to actually do a lot of this without a lot of budget requirement. If you're one of those small startups that does not have the right amount of budget, it's absolutely fine. I mean, there are still so many avenues for us to add value.

I think we just need to kind of start small, try to go deeper and try to do a lot of things within a specific area or arena, show what playback looks like and work with senior stakeholders so that you really kind of make that trust relationship. 

And finally, I would say that one thing that you should do is you should guard your objectivity. This function works when you're seen as an objective individual or a team. I think decision making, influencing, turning insights into action, all of that follows when they know that you come from the right space. 

And I think that's important when you cultivate or build your team, have objectivity and that will kind of help you get a higher insight to action ratio.

Opportunities for insights professionals

Thor: A lot of good advice here, Anup. And I think if we build on that for a second and think we're doing all the things in the right way. What opportunities do you think exist for these insights professionals? Some of them among the audience are listeners. What opportunities exist for them to make true a business impact and how can they challenge the status quo?

Anup: I'd go back to my first point around how insights or how we can represent the why. I think insights professionals are best placed to kind of really represent the human intelligence in the org. 

So, while you have all of the data, all of the machinery and processing protocols all super important, what actually is happening with that consumer of yours is an onus on you. And I think if you can own that and keep delivering on that a lot of good flying that you can actually create. 

And I think the opportunity lies in owning some of that and doing that exploration and having that right brain thinking and representing that in your org as a champion will actually open a lot of doors because there are a lot of people who have the questions. They may not be able to articulate it, but they have the question. I think it's time that you find them and you walk up to the doors if they don't come to you.

The challenges facing insights professionals in the near future

Thor: You've given us so much good advice here and for some of us who are maybe in the early days of our career almost gave us a playbook on how to get started. But there are also challenges. And what challenges do you see the most? What do you see as the biggest one that could face insights professionals and actually the wider industry in the near future?

Anup: One is that we have to learn to do more with less. It's one of the values that Swiggy has, which is “Do more with less.“ And I truly believe that it's applicable on the insights professionals. 

We have smaller teams, we will have budget cuts and I think how you can get maximum juice and impact is the way you should plan for your teams and you should plan for the work to come. It's a reality that's likely to be here and I think one should embrace it and find ways in which you could actually do better. 

One industry wide challenge that exists is the data quality issue. Everything that we do, the foundation is the data quality. I need to trust the data or the signal that comes to me because everything else is going to build on top of that. 

So I do believe that that is one area that people who are actually able to offer significantly better data than others would have an advantage in days to come. Emotion data, I don't mean internal data, I mean anal data, external data, revenues to reach consumers, surely good quality stuff that will be a premium a lot of folks will be willing to pay for.

Who Anup would love to have lunch with in the world of insights

Thor: Great advice. And unfortunately, Anup, this also means that we're very close to the end of our conversation, a very engaging conversation. There is one last question though, which I always ask, a question I love to ask, which is who in the world of insights would you love to have lunch with?

Anup: Given that we spoke a bit about behavioral science, I think I'm going to take this as a consumer behavior question and maybe Dan Ariely is somebody that I'd love to have lunch with and just understand this a little more from him, from the absolute best.

Summary

Thor: Okay, that's I'm sure a very good discussion topic and something that I think a lot of us would benefit from. Wow, this has been such an enlightening conversation, Anup. I've really enjoyed hearing from your perspective on insights, leadership, particularly how you worked to elevate the role of insights throughout your career. 

I've taken away a lot of learnings. I've thought about how one benefit of working in different industries that you have seen is that you've realized that there are so many more data sources available for truth seeking and that those different lenses are actually super powerful. 

You've also told us that as an insights leader, I think we should remember this. We live in a world of probabilities, not precision. Be a human, take that risk, take your stakeholders along with you. As long as you've informed them, they will understand. When building your team, try to seek out people that are curious, that have a willingness to roll up their sleeves, but are also agile in their approach. 

I love the idea of no baggage. What might have been true for you in the past might not be true in the future. Don't allow your baggage to slow you down and guard your objectivity. Anup, I know that I've learned a lot from talking to you today and I'm sure our audience has as well. So thank you so much for joining me today.

Anup: Thank you so much for having me. It's been an absolute pleasure. Fascinating question. Great discussion for thank you once again.