For this year's mid-year review on the Insighter's Club Podcast, Ross sat down with Stravito CEO Thor Olof Philogène to explore how the insights function is evolving in 2025. In a conversation that spans AI adoption, the power of storytelling, and the rise of commercially minded insight teams, Thor shares his perspective on what it takes for insights to truly drive business growth. He also reflects on how teams can break down silos, modernize delivery formats, and position themselves as trusted business advisors—not just data providers.
Read the full interview below or listen to the full episode here for the complete conversation.
Reflecting on H1 2025
Ross:
It's been a crazy year. I think anyone in the industry would agree with that sentiment. But I think before we dive into specific themes, I'd like to start by zooming out. Our listeners will know I like to do this quite often. But if we start by really having to think about what for you has been top-of-mind as you think about the past six months and whether that's been something that's come up in episodes previously on the podcast, or maybe perhaps your broader conversations with insight leaders across the industry, what to you has stood out as being especially important or even surprising about the direction that insight is heading in at the moment?
Thor:
Oh, Ross, that's such a good question and quite a tough one too. But if I had to reflect on the first half of 2025 and take a broader industry perspective, a prominent trend emerging from discussions I've had with professionals in the market research industry is the integration of AI driven tools with traditional qualitative methods. This fusion aims to enhance the depth and speed of insights, enabling more agile and informed decision-making processes.
But reflecting more specifically on the podcast, what truly stood out in my view is the shift towards understanding insights, not merely as data, but as a strategic asset that drives business growth. There is a, I'd say, growing recognition that insights must go beyond simple observations and uncover the deeper motivations and human truths, if you will, driving consumer behavior.
We're in the middle of a fundamental redefinition of what insights work means. It's no longer about reporting what happened.
It's about becoming the central nervous system that helps organizations navigate complexity and uncertainty in real time.
And we're seeing an exciting movement towards making insights a core part of decision-making processes across all levels of an organization. And I think the speed of this shift is quite remarkable. Now, what this tells me is we're in the middle of a fundamental redefinition of what insights work means. It's no longer about reporting what happened. It's about becoming the central nervous system that helps organizations navigate complexity and uncertainty in real time.
Unpacking catalytic insight
Ross:
Yeah. I think something you said there already resonated around being a strategic asset. I think certainly in my conversations and even for Stravito customers that transition in operation and perception from, you know, being an insight team, being a file repository to being strategic partners and reusable assets for the business is a really important one.
I think one recurring thread as well that I've heard in the conversations we've been having this year was really a critique, if you like, of shallow or maybe generic insights. That is, do we have enough of those? I remember Grant Feller, for example, called them marmalade droppers or, you know, I won't swear on the podcast, but insights that really make you sit up and take notice.
And several of our guests challenged that and emphasized that building insights that truly unlock something, whether that's strategically, creatively or commercially, is really important.
And I was thinking in your experience, what do you think separates those more catalytic insights from the rest? And are there particular environments for them to flourish and foster? Because I think that's quite a challenge for insight teams that are busy doing the day-to-day operations of a business.
Thor:
Now, before I answer the questions, yes, I fully agree. And, and, I would say that there's a strong consensus that insights should not be the “say what you see" type moments, but instead should reveal the why behind the what. And catalytic insights, as you call them, you know, really provide sharp clarity. They help us reframe the problem. They illuminate new pathways, and generally speaking, pathways that were previously unseen.
Now, I think we all agree that the best insights are actionable and lead to tangible change in strategy and in operations and environments that foster these insights, I believe, need to be collaborative, cross-functional, and also encourage open dialogue. It's about intelligence that helps reframe a problem or reveal a path that we weren't even looking at. So if that's true, then the question becomes, how should one think about reframing the problem?
It's about intelligence that helps reframe a problem or reveal a path that we weren't even looking at.
So if that's true, then the question becomes, how should one think about reframing the problem?
And the way I think about it, we should use insights to expand, meaning identifying all aspects of a problem, examine, meaning diving into the root causes, empathize, considering the different key stakeholders and their perspectives, elevate, putting the problem into a broader context and envision, which is really about creating a roadmap towards the desired outcome. Now, looking at a problem from a variety of perspectives will help you uncover that path forward that we were talking about.
The art of insight storytelling
Ross:
And anyone that can create a snappy tagline like that for his music to my ears, as a former communications professional. But staying on that theme, communication has been quite a dominant theme, actually, along with AI in conversations we've been having this year, especially the need to simplify insight without losing that meaning. Now, there's age-old schools of thought here on, you know, are we over truncating the nuance? Are we losing the depth of insight?
Other people feel like you need sharper, more powerful storytelling, more snackable formats. I know where I sit on that spectrum, but I'm wondering how do you think insight teams can balance those two schools of thought? How can they walk that line well? And are there approaches that you're seeing where it's been particularly effective to find that sweet spot?
Thor:
You were touching a really important point here, Ross. And I actually, I do agree with many of the observations you were referring to. And I think balancing simplicity and nuance in communication will always be key. The best insights professionals or data scientists for that matter know how to tell stories. And when hiring companies should not focus just on the technical qualifications, but on finding people who are able to communicate and articulate the story behind the data and the insight. Now, insights need to be conveyed through compelling stories that resonate with the audience rather than just presenting raw data. Visual aids, narratives, and engaging formats like short videos, summaries, know, interactive dashboards can be effective. But the goal, which we should never forget, is to capture the attention and convey meaning without losing the depth and complexity of the insight.
Where I think most teams, at least in my experience, get it wrong is that they jump straight to execution instead of thinking about storytelling.
And I agree, it's a real art in finding that sweet spot. Now, more generally, however, where I think most teams, at least in my experience, get it wrong is that they jump straight to execution instead of thinking about storytelling. So then the question becomes, what should you do to get started?
Well, I would say first, understand your story so well that you can describe it in simple terms. Second, honor the past. Third, articulate a persuasive mandate for change and fourth, lay out a rigorous and optimistic path forward. Because the best stories don't just communicate information or elicit an emotional reaction. They need to, but they're also a tool to persuade and to motivate people. And I think, you know, having, you know, followed this podcast's journey as a host and then afterwards listening to all the great episodes you've done, it all comes back to that recurring topic that we've covered I don't know how many times on the podcast, namely: Do you have a clear and compelling answer to the question? What, so what, now what? It's a classic, but it will help you prioritize what you need to convey.
Building data literacy and muscle memory
Ross:
Absolutely, and I think there's sort of a renewed focus on that “What's next?” bit and just an addendum to what you were saying there. I think something that the industry is becoming more more aware of is the need not just to tell the story, the human truth, but to marry that up with commercial impact for stakeholders for the business if you really want your insight to have trajectory in a business,
And I think attached to that actually is, and I'm seeing some of this even outside the podcast, in the industry itself, is the time for being kind of humble and blue collar might be over. The time for being a little bit more self-promotional, dare I say, in how you push your insight into a business, I think, is definitely here.
But a topic I wanted to move on to actually moving away from comms is really data literacy and kind of audience readiness, if you like. And again, this is something in my career I've heard on repeat constantly, we need to upskill the business to be more data literate, to be more insight literate. But there's actually a bit of a tension there because, you know, if you think about the kind of work that I do, often it's simplifying insight or maybe simplifying is the wrong word, making insight more actionable, more digestible, more consumable, more engaging. And actually there's a slight tension between those two things. As we spoke earlier, there is a sweet spot to do it really, really well. But do you think businesses are getting closer to resolving that tension? How should insight teams think about the muscle memory needed both inside and outside the function to make insight land and then importantly, really stick because we want insight to be a reusable asset, not a single shot cannon.
Tailoring the insights to what the key stakeholders can understand and how they use the information is essential for making insights land and stick.
Thor:
You make a really good point there, Ross. And to your point that the challenge isn't just about education, it's about building that muscle memory through structured approaches. So as you said, there is tension between educating stakeholders to be more data literate and simplifying insights for easier consumption. But what I've seen is businesses navigating this tension by building muscle memory through consistent sharing, adapting delivery to the audience's level of understanding, and building narratives around the data. Now, tailoring the insights to what the key stakeholders can understand and how they use the information is essential for making insights land and stick. It's also about knowing the type of outputs that work. I mean, organizations getting this right are focusing on the data literacy that connects to business impact.
It's not just about teaching people about data and helping them interpret the insights. It's equally about showing them how better insight understanding directly improves their specific work outcome. That's where the real muscle memory develops.
AI's role in insight ecosystems
Ross:
Absolutely. And I think I would be remiss not to turn the conversation towards AI. I think on every episode I talk about, how many times per day are you thinking, talking, writing, ruminating on artificial intelligence? And every time we speak about this, there's some difference in the topic we're talking about. Some people are seeing AI as a really powerful enabler. Other guests are seeing this as something that perhaps risks flattening insight in terms of, being an output or, you know, removing human nuance from how you build your, your brief, your analysis and then how you push it into the business. But you're at the center of this really.
What's your take on where we are right now in terms of meaningful AI adoption in the insight world? And really, what kind of questions do you think teams should be asking themselves before they embrace that journey, before they start building AI-driven workflows and platforms, building it into how they put their analysis together? Where do you see that sitting in the ecosystem at the moment?
Thor:
To your point, I think there's really very few conversations nowadays that don't involve AI to some degree. So I think it's a great question. And AI is undeniably a transformative force, though there is a risk of it flattening insights into mere outputs if not used carefully. So I'd say it's crucial to view AI as a tool that enhances human insight, not replaces it. AI can assist with analyzing large data sets, surfacing patterns and even co-creating questions, but it needs to be guided by human expertise. It's about integrating AI to drive excellence and not just deficiencies or saving time where I actually think a lot of the conversation is. Leaders should focus on preserving and strengthening strategic thinking when implementing AI tools and preserving critical thinking over generative AI.
AI is undeniably a transformative force, though there is a risk of it flattening insights into mere outputs if not used carefully.
I believe it was HBR, the Harvard Business Review, had a piece that highlighted an interesting point. Namely that AI models can outperform human CEOs in certain data-driven strategic tasks like market optimization. In other words, making adjustments to your marketing efforts based on the data you've gathered. But those very same AI models failed when handling unpredictable disruptions. we've, mean, if we just take a look at the past years, they happened.
And that really reinforces the future that, you know, the future isn't AI replacing human insight. It's a hybrid model where AI enhances data analysis and operational efficiency while humans focus on long-term vision, ethics and adaptability. So the key question teams should ask isn't whether to adopt AI, but how to integrate it strategically, why preserving what HBR calls the human-centered intelligence.
Turning insight into business infrastructure
Ross:
Yeah, that's really interesting. My mind has flashed to a conversation I was having a couple of days ago where I was reflecting just on the efficiency I've gained in my team from using AI for a variety of tasks that would have taken days and weeks previously. But I was discussing with somebody about the value of failure. You know, particularly as a writer, when you write something wrong or it doesn't land, you learn from that experience and it becomes part of your learning loop. And we were discussing, what does that mean in the AI world? And then the person I was chatting to said, yes, but now you can fail at scale and learn at scale, which I thought was a really interesting way of reflecting on it. And I think we're just at the cusp where we have to adopt a test and learn attitude to this. It’s top of our thoughts for sure. So I think a carry on from that actually is taking us sort of full circle is insight as a strategic asset.
Multiple guests have spoken about insight not being just a one and done report that is sent into the ether of the business never to be seen again, but as something that a business should accumulate an asset that is searchable, shareable, strategically reusable. But what's your perspective on what it actually takes on the ground to shift from that kind of output mindset to more of an asset mindset. And are there any signs in the market that businesses are really starting to invest in that shift, in that journey?
Insights should accumulate over time, building a valuable knowledge base that's searchable, shareable, and reusable, but that does require a cultural change.
Thor:
I think it's a very good point. And actually I think the gist of the answer lies in the word journey that you just used. It is a journey and the shift from an output mindset to an asset mindset is really crucial. Insights should accumulate over time, building a valuable knowledge base that's searchable, shareable, and reusable, but that does require a cultural change.
It requires investment in robust knowledge management systems. And I think businesses increasingly, at least this is through my interactions, what I feel recognize the value of these accumulated insights as a significant competitive advantage, and as such, require investments, in this shift. Because at the end of the day, it's all about that...actionable insight that drives new products, new services, and ultimately revenue.
The commercial edge of insight teams
Ross:
And thinking about investment and revenue, you know, I touched on the point earlier around commerciality. So commercial acumen, building credibility in your insight to really make it travel through the business. And they've been some of the sharpest moments, I think, on the podcast this year, when guests have really talked about the need, but particularly, think, Nick Graham from Vertemis and formerly Pepsi and many other places, was talking about the need for insight teams to step up commercially. So talking much more about revenue impact, not just the research, which is of course still absolutely the most important thing.
Do you think actually this is something insight leaders kind of proactively prioritize enough? And where have you seen good examples of insight professionals being trusted business advisors, not just seen as a support function? And I think what's quite interesting with that is actually it's not just the insight leaders that that behavior, I guess, has to trickle down to the team as well to have that commercial acumen built into your makeup.
Thor:
That's a super relevant point. And when I reflect on the many meetings I've had, in the past year, and, I definitely know that there are leaders that are already in that position and that really are already becoming that trusted advisor and really core to decision-making at very large organizations.
But I think overall, there are many teams that still need to step up. And I think inside teams need to step up commercially, owning the revenue impact of their findings and translating those insights into actionable strategies that effectively drive business growth. Because that is really essential for building credibility and influence over time. So to your point, insight professionals must be seen as trusted advisors, and they need to be deeply embedded in the business planning, not as support teams, you know, simply providing data. It's about insights that change behavior and make an impact on business growth.
In general, what I see is that those successful professionals are T-shaped managers. They have deep expertise in their domain and can freely share ideas and expertise across the company while remaining fiercely committed to business unit performance.
Now, as I mentioned, I've met a lot of those leaders that actually are already doing this and showing the way. And in general, what I see is that those successful professionals are T-shaped managers. They have deep expertise in their domain and can freely share ideas and expertise across the company while remaining fiercely committed to business unit performance. In other words, these are people who have, you know, two deep expertise in one area, which is the vertical stroke of the T as well as broad capabilities across other disciplines, which is the horizontal stroke of the T. They're not just providing insights, they're translating insights into strategic implications and actionable recommendations. Now, if we combine this with the power of AI, leading insights teams will empower their companies to think deeply and act swiftly. The insight teams that understand this are positioning themselves as enablers of competitive advantage, not just providers of information.
Rethinking formats: beyond PowerPoint
Ross:
Yeah, and I think what's interesting here, actually, I was reading recently a report from DataIQ, I think a big transition I've seen actually in the past 10 or 15 years has been the role of the insight professional has definitely scaled up more to, know, we have chief data officers, we have chief insight officers. Reading the data IQ report, there's still a feeling from the insight industry that occasionally that's title over sway. I think that's probably a subject for another episode, but at least we're getting our foot in the door at this point in terms of that top table decision making. I think some really interesting reflections you had there on the skill sets and the makeup of the kind of people that are going to really help drive that commercial acumen. Going from that end of the spectrum, probably down to the other end of the spectrum, I think when we think about tech and tools, a quiet but I think very significant theme this year was around, and very close to my heart as well, was around how we modernize, how insights are delivered, how do we move beyond PowerPoint.
How do we embrace platforms like Loom or Canva and many others and shift to more dynamic formats? And I think, you know, I wrote about this on LinkedIn. Those formats, decks and dashboards essentially have been used for years for good reason. They are a good vehicle to deliver, you know, nuanced insight, and apologies listeners, you've probably heard me rattle on about this before. But actually, that audience is changing and we're changing scope from small groups of insight savvy people to bigger corporate groups of time poor decision makers. Do you think that that's just a presentation trend, or does it signal something deeper about how teams are trying to connect better with their audience effectively?
Thor:
Moving beyond PowerPoint to more dynamic formats, like the ones you mentioned, Loom, Canva does signify a deeper shift towards engaging communication. It's about what could be called audience-centric communication in an era where, as we all know, attention is increasingly fragmented. Therefore the shift to dynamic formats like Loom and Canva really reflect a fundamental understanding that traditional presentation methods like PowerPoint often fail to create the engagement necessary for the insights to drive action.
This shift also reflects how work itself is changing. With remote and hybrid work becoming permanent, the teams that can create compelling, shareable content are the ones that maintain influence and actually drive impact.
Now, the first question you might ask yourself is why is that important? And why should you care? Well, because modernizing how insights are delivered will connect better with the audience and will make the information delivered more memorable.
Now, this shift also reflects how work itself is changing. With remote and hybrid work becoming permanent, the teams that can create compelling, shareable content are the ones that maintain influence and actually drive impact. It's not just about making prettier presentations. It's about creating formats that allow insights to travel effectively through organizations and maintain their impact across different contexts through and to different audiences.
Breaking down silos
Ross:
And lingering on that last point actually in terms of having cross audience appeal and having penetration into a business…we talk about silos a lot in the insight industry. Silos between stakeholders and the insight teams, silos within the insight teams themselves, silos at decision-making levels that happen naturally in big organizations. But when we think from cross-functional insights to integrated data ecosystems, several of our guests basically have raised the issue of siloed operations. And again, as I mentioned, within insight teams and the broader business. But what are you seeing in terms of how organizations are or are not successfully breaking down those barriers?
Everybody talks about all the cool things that AI will be able to do, but I think this is really an infrastructure question. Do you have the infrastructure to support your future AI plans?
Thor:
That's a super relevant question. And I think to your point, it's a question that's been relevant for quite a while and breaking down siloed operations, you know, both with an insights team and, and across broader or the broader business is vital, you know, cross functional teams, integrated data ecosystem, shared goals, all those things are essential for, for unified strategies. And actually I had a conversation, we were talking about the future of the broader marketing function, the CMO and the future. Everybody talks about all the cool things that AI will be able to do, but I think this is really an infrastructure question. Do you have the infrastructure to support your future AI plans? And, it's hard for me not to wear my CEO of Stravito hat when answering this question, but I fundamentally believe solutions like Stravito play an important role in breaking down those barriers and creating an integrated data ecosystem. But there's of course more. Successful organizations are also breaking down barriers through collaborative platforms and bringing sales and marketing stakeholders along the journey, leading to much better success.
The skills that matter most right now
Ross:
I think we've touched on a lot of themes there, and it rings in my mind that actually a lot of this is all forming part of the evolving role of the insight professional. And that is something that again has come up time and time again in the podcast. Insight teams need to wear a lot of hats today, more so than they probably ever have done previously. So if we think about the skills that matter most right now. If you had to list those skills, what do you think's become most valuable in the first half of this year? Not just technically, but holistically. What would they be and where should insight teams be focusing that upscaling budget and energy?
The three most valuable skills in insights right now are communication intelligence, adaptability and commercial acumen.
Thor:
I'd say the three most valuable skills in insights right now are communication intelligence, adaptability and commercial acumen. Now, if I go through them, I'd say communication intelligence is really about crafting narratives that resonate and move people to action. But this goes beyond storytelling to what I believe we mentioned before, namely audience-centric insight delivery. It's the ability to translate expertise. So different audiences see relevance, to demonstrate executive presence across digital platforms and to create compelling narratives that drive action.
The second one, adaptability, embracing new tools and technologies like AI and accepting the pace of change because it's not going away. Or put it differently, shifting from reflective to reflexive decision-making using AI. The valuable skill is knowing how to integrate AI strategically while preserving human insight and human oversight. And lastly, commercial acumen. Understanding the business impact of insights. This ties back to what we talked about before, which is the T-shaped management that we again mentioned a couple of questions before. So I'd say upscaling in these areas is crucial for insights teams to really thrive today.
Looking ahead to H2 2025
Ross:
It's really interesting and as I reflect on your list there, my mind is cast back to previous guests we've had this year actually. And this supports, I think, a commonly held view that actually, you know, it would probably be fair to say that traditionally maybe 78 % of focus for an insight professional has been on building the analysis and much less so on how that insight is prepared and delivered, how that insight is delivered and then followed through into the business. And I think as we move into this new world, it does feel like the skills you listed there really evens that out. It levels up that focus.
Of course, preparing the insight robustly is crucially important, but actually it's become much more important to think about how you deliver and then supercharge that insight to have take-up in the business.
And on the theme of looking ahead, we're tipping over now into the second half of 2025. And I'm sure it's going to be as exciting as the first six months. But I wanted to think about what you're keeping your eye on as a CEO. Are there any trends or shifts that you think are going to become even more central in the coming months, either for insight teams specifically or actually for the businesses and stakeholders that they serve?
Thor:
Well, I'd say I keep a close eye on the continued evolution of AI, the drive towards actionable insights that truly impact business decisions and the broadening of what constitutes insight. I mean, we've asked that question many times. How would you define an insight? Diverse perspectives like considering sound. This is something you covered in the podcast as an avenue for insights or highlighting the marmalade dropping moments remind me of just how varied this field can be.
We are entering an era where companies will be able to think deeply and act swiftly. This in turn means that the insights function becomes uniquely positioned to enable this transformation.
Now the reference I just made to the marmalade dropping moment was Grant Feller who joined on the podcast earlier this year described those marmalade dropping moments as something that would make you sit up and sit on the edge of your seat. He explained it by referencing an old phrase where someone is so astonished by a story that they are reading at breakfast that they did drop the marmalade off their toast. And apparently that became a short hand in journalism for something that makes you say, my God, look at this.
Lastly, I'll just reconnect to some points made earlier and made possible through embracing AI, namely that we are entering an era where companies will be able to think deeply and act swiftly. This in turn means that the insights function becomes uniquely positioned to enable this transformation. Not just by providing better insights, but by creating the knowledge infrastructure that makes rapid, intelligent decision-making possible across the entire organization. These chains will be gradual and those areas will become even more central in the coming months and the years ahead. And that's what I keep my eye on.
Visions for the future
Ross:
Absolutely. And I think, you know, we could talk for three hours, no doubt on these themes, but I'm conscious you're a busy man. So thinking about as we wrap up here, if you could wave a magic wand, what would be the one shift you would love to see in how insights are being used by the end of this clearly very exciting and tumultuous year?
Insights must be seen as a way of thinking, a way of doing business, not just the department.
Thor:
I'd want to see insights truly embedded in every decision making process. So go to more than a simple modus operandi, but actually more because it's really our raison d'etre. And we need to continue moving beyond just informing decisions to influencing and shaping them.
Insights must be seen as a way of thinking, a way of doing business, not just the department. It's just about making the insights stick and creating more resonating connections with the end customers.
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